June 13, 2016
With the deep certainty to receive a personal lesson, I turn to the beautiful lands of Lleida to chat with Daniel Gabarró, teacher and guide, writer, speaker and entrepreneur, among other dedications..., although the most mysterious is certainly the name he uses to appear: “A Spiritual Sherpa”.
Daniel also offers books, material and courses to bring new values, inspire and accompany individuals, companies and organizations for a more conscious worldview.
Throughout the talk I can sense his humility, joy, respect, sincere affection... But what I perceive as true is that Daniel Gabarró has recorded the word “acceptance” on his personal experience, to the point of integrating it to the energy he transmits. And I realise I am with someone very wise, with a long way to go as he continues walking firmly.
It's great to recognize in the other acceptance towards yourself. Thanks Daniel! Will this be my lesson? I hope his words will help you as much as me. Here you have them.
Do you like the mountain?
I really like the mountain, but I'm not fit and get tired a lot! So I just walk occasionally, but I do not make long trips. The only mountain on which I'm always is within me, the mountain of self-knowledge.
And the word: “Sherpa”, where does it come from?
Basically, of the role. A Sherpa is a person who accompanies you on a path that he has done and that he knows. Therefore, it saves you a lot of work! I accompany people to walk inside, to conquer their own summits, to get to know themselves deeply...
But a Sherpa can only show you the way he knows.
And you accompany people personally, professionally and pedagogically?
Yes, I go with the roads I know. I have been a teacher for over 25 years, I am a businessman, I have done a lot of personal growth, a lot of self-knowledge development... So these are the areas where I can accompany people: education, business and of the group. But my accompaniment is always from the consciousness of values. With tenderness. Knowing yourself is a job that must to do with love, with tenderness towards us…
A Sherpa is a person who accompanies you on a path that he has done and that he knows. Therefore, it saves you a lot of work!
And which one do you like more?
The one I like and deeper for me is the spiritual. The business support opens your eyes to see the values that are not contrary to corporate profits... The educational support teaches innovative methodologies... but what I like more is that a person is reunited with his essence: the spiritual accompaniment.
And the clients are patients, students...?
They are students! So I don't even consider them as customers. They learn and I learn with them. My job is a great chance. I can learn a lot because I am obliged to teach clearly... And this helps me understand more and more things.
Sometimes they are individuals; others are therapists, businessmen... I accompany them as a Sherpa. They are people who want to live with intensity, they want to be happier. I accompany them, I facilitate them tools to live fully.
But I have a very strong side of “teacher” too, often I advise to schools and cloisters how to educate for happiness or about the teaching of spelling or math problems... I have been a school teacher for 25 years, it is a world I know in depth.
But sometimes the Sherpas also help you with your luggage, right?
I help you to carry things you still cannot take, but you will take when the time comes. I accompany you and I make you the trip easy.
The culpability. It costs a lot to carry. I take it and if I can, I transform it, for example, to make you understand that: “You are not responsible for what others do with your mistakes”. You have the right to go wrong and you are not responsible for what others do with your mistakes. “When you integrate this, guilt melts like an ice cube...”
You are not responsible for what others do with your mistakes”. You have the right to go wrong and you are not responsible for what others do with your mistakes
Ufff! But with the errors of others, we often get angry!
Yes, but it is true what I do with their mistakes, the mistakes of others, It only depends on me. And what others do with my mistakes depend on them. Then, when I convey this idea and delve into it, the person is released from many things. It is just one example... but the key is to provide tools so that they can self observe and integrate information about wisdom. In this sense, I am holding the camera, I am the mirror. It is a way to charge your weight.
And in your case, which has been the chosen path? I see you have many titles...
For a long time I have worked on self-knowledge because I needed and wanted it and it was a way to get the better of me. But I do not choose the path I take. I limit myself to decide things that stand for me. Then my life is written from many “Yes”. But I do not seek, nor do I really decide where I am going. From here life is expressed and this is very nice.
But there comes a time when you “decide” to become a guide for others...
Well, not exactly. At that time I was a “teacher” in a school and one of my spiritual teachers told me: “You only understand things when you teach. You are a teacher, so teach! Share what you have learned and you will end up learning from everything. From now on, you have to teach. Think about it! And then, take the step”. He suggested me to share this knowledge. And I gladly accepted, naturally!
You only understand things when you teach. You are a teacher, so teach! Share what you have learned and you will end up learning from everything
Teach the lessons that you had received...
Yes, but is also true that eventually I would have to discover my own way to do it. And indeed, it was because I followed at first the lines of Antonio Blay and Antonio de Mello, but lately I am incorporating much those of Gerardo Schmedling. I integrate only what is key to my life and that I have verified. I never talk about anything that I haven't lived in the first person. I think there are too many people who talk about what they have read but haven't lived by themselves. I try not to do. I only speak of what I live. So I do not explain it, but I only describe my own life. This gives a lot of power to what I teach: it's alive.
Knowledge is information only when it can give results, always the same. It means that it has become wisdom
Yes, because knowledge is not enough. Knowledge is information only when it can give results, always the same. It means that it has become wisdom. When your information gives you sometimes some results and sometimes some others, it means that this information isn't very successful and have not been integrated.
It's necessary a constant work
Sure, that is why I teach. Because it serves me to learn! I am who is the most happy among my students because I do my courses and continually get reminded of them.
I often forget how little I know and I enter the autopilot mode...
That means you fell asleep. That is why it is dangerous when things go too well because you tend to fall sleep even more than when you think life is difficult. You need to be very awake, to be able to preserve the happiness.
So we only learn when we enter the crisis mode?
Not necessarily. But it is very normal. Antonio Blay always said that we learn to be able to have the discernment, that is, because we want to learn, or from suffering. I think many people learn from suffering. But still there comes a time in life where you have enough understanding and then you realize that suffering is optional and therefore you begin to learn by the discernment. But until then, you blame to the outside of what happens to you and you want them to change. And it brings much suffering.
We must take the responsibility and it's complicated
Yes, because you don’t make me change if I do not want. And until you understand it, you spend a lot of time trying to get people to change, to be kind to you, to understand you, to make them want you... that you have no problems. You are avoiding the difficulties and this is impossible: in life always there are anyway. Until one day you say, “Shut up! I can't avoid it”. And then you start to ask yourself: “Where is the focus of power?”, “Who rules actually in my life?”, “Where is the focus?”. “My life is me, why do I give the power to others?”. It's when you start doing personal work and self-knowledge. This is what makes the difference, I think. When, instead of wanting to change others, you start to change yourself. Then everything starts to change...
Would it be like changing the ideas?
I am not only talking about ideas, but also about of the interpretation we have of reality. It's important to realize that my vision of the world shows how I feel and that I won't be able to change anything whilst thinking the same way.
I think many people learn from suffering. But still there comes a time in life where you have enough understanding and then you realize that suffering is optional and therefore you begin to learn by the discernment
This work, is a gateway to spirituality?
Spirituality is any path that leads me to my essence. As soon as I discover it, I am already taking a spiritual path. I can take a path of an absolutely atheist, Jew, agnostic... Any way to stay away is not, although it is blessed by lamas and bishops.
And, what is the essence?
It is what does not change, regardless of what our body does, regardless of our whole life moves: thoughts, emotions, feelings, actions... My essence is something that is still, that which is always. It is discovering and live from what is, and not from the periphery. This makes a deep spiritual work. And everything changes for the better when you do.
Slowly discovering all...
It is a part of it. It is because the essence is like an onion. As you discover things, you go deeper. Although the end is very possible that we end up discovering our very essence which is probably nothing personal. (But on the latter point, I cannot speak because I do not know, It is only an intuition).
But there is a time when I discover that 'I AM' here and now and I did not need to be something or someone else and that all kinds of search was futile. Along the way, you are working on certain layers until you stop identifying your thoughts, emotions and actions... but there is still a self that is identified. The essence was already there before that 'I' was.
Spirituality is any path that leads me to my essence. As soon as I discover it, I am already taking a spiritual path
It is a profound teaching...
And yet I have not reached the bottom. I am only halfway. But this is a part of the path I can share with you.
Could we start with some awareness?
Ok. But, what is awareness? At first, I need to be aware that I am aware, because all my attention is directed at the outside and I don't include myself within it. From the moment I start to include me, the self begins to grow. Meanwhile the only that grows is the outside, but it is also a part of my consciousness because I can not live off what I see or understand. What happens is that I divide it into three parts: I, the world and the divinity. But the three together create the space where I am now. In fact, they aren't separated. Many mystics say that everything is unity. You and I are the same. From its perception is very clear: I only can see you within my conscience! So, the first step is to be aware that 'I AM'. It is when I start to build a solid I that does not tremble, that the outside doesn't make unhappy. But then, there is a certain time when this “I” needs to dissolve.
And, have you met someone who has dissolved this I?
No. But, could you distinguish the old from the medieval Sanskrit?
Neither I! Therefore, it is possible that someone has dissolved already this “I” and that I can't read it yet. My vision is always based on my understanding. So perhaps everyone is enlightened except me... and so I have to do courses!
And acceptance, would it be another important factor in this start?
Acceptance is fundamental. Note that acceptance, comprehension and love could be three synonyms. Love is acceptance of what happens. If I accept that you are what you are, then I can love you. But I only can accept you, if I understand you. In reality, when I look you from acceptance, I begin to accept me and I am discovering more my depth. It becomes a way of acceptance and discovery of myself. To spirituality you can enter from very different paths and this is also very beautiful. It is like a diamond and what it matters is you enter conscious for some of the faces.
And your students, or people in general, can understand this introspective part so difficult to explain?
Yes. I teach a course of 9 months called “Aula Interior” (Within Classroom)… and people come back!. Although they pay each month and no one is forced to return, but the next month they are still there. And they tell me: “My personal life is changing”. The first 5 months, I forbid them to make any changes. I only ask them to look and no touch the flaws, however terrible they could be. And people come back telling me: “I don't know what is happening”.
At first, I need to be aware that I am aware, because all my attention is directed at the outside and I don't include myself within it. From the moment I start to include me, the self begins to grow
Do you think there are more people now asking this sort of thing?
Yes, I think so. I think the world is on a brink of change. There is an emerging awareness. Particularly, I don't think we are in crisis, but in the emerge of a new society. Therefore, it is not an economical crisis, nor political, nor territorial, nor the loss of values. It is simply that the world that existed is breaking into pieces and a new one is appearing. The question is whether we will know how to promote with enough agility the birth of this new world, because all births are painful. So let's do it shortie!
Are we going from old to new paradigm?
Yes. In the social sphere, the old paradigm placed the science and the economy at the center and it allowed a spectacular progress. Now, the next change is to put in the center the welfare of people. Within the well-being is obviously consciousness. Therefore, we are making a big jump. But this must be done collectively, with the sum of individuals and not all are at the same stage. But it does not matter...
You have students who are entrepreneurs. Are they ready to change the chip?
In fact, I have many entrepreneurs who are already with this chip. There is still the problem on how making a profitable company with this new chip, because we cannot deny that any company needs to be profitable because otherwise it can't buy your lentils. At this point, we are experiencing, discovering. I think there are many things that we sense but do not know quite clearly.
... acceptance, comprehension and love could be three synonyms. Love is acceptance of what happens. If I accept that you are what you are, then I can love you. But I only can accept you, if I understand you
Will you continue creating new courses?
Yes, especially I try to create useful materials. This is always my intention. Now, for example, I am doing a manual to include the values in the company and how it can benefit them. And so all, workers, managers, owners... have the same training, because if not, is a disaster. It is needed an awareness training, values training.
Yes, with a friend from Madrid we are writing a book that will talk about ideas that make people suffer. When I write a book, I try to help as many people as possible... and the result is that all is very easy! I always say that what I do is to generate utility for people, showing them a box of chocolates... and of course, the fudge is so good!
It must be very satisfying to help...
Yes, a lot. And it's one thing that I really like. Definitely! Especially why I do it consciously and with this intention. Although some of the books I have written have sold very little...
The truth is that I always think it will be a very useful book. Maybe some day I'll guess right. But mostly I write for me. When I write something, I also understand it and I can write another one deeper, so I can understand another one even deeper. And perhaps, I will then write my last one book!
Maybe is by the topic...
Well. I write with the idea that we must change our way of seeing the world and must change fundamentally our perception of good and evil. This is the essence of everything. From here, 99% of things will change, work, family, relationships and self... Suddenly, I realize that I am the source of love, and you don't have to love me. So, when I look at you trying to understand you, I love you. And within me there is love! And, how I got this? Where does this love come from? It goes out of my look. That's the big difference. Basically everything I write is always based on the same topic.
With children, we are wrong with all this of good and evil thing...
Yes, but nothing happens, because if you don’t make a mistake, you cannot hit and do what you think is right...
You have the right to make mistakes because if not, the other person could not learn. Therefore, we must not blame... this is another important world, the blame.
The topic for another talk!
Thank you Daniel! If you ever go to Nepal to make a 'tiny' trekking, do you hire a Sherpa?… A Sherpa is accompanying another Sherpa?
Haha! I never thought about it, but the idea makes me laugh.
Links related to this talk:
- www.danielgabarro.cat (web page of Daniel Gabarró with information on his courses, conferences and such...)
- www.aulainterior.net (The most profound course on self-knowledge that Daniel Gabarró presents each year from October until June in Barcelona, Lleida and Madrid)
- www.campusdanielgabarro.com (website with free video courses. In Catalan and Spanish)
- www.BoiraEditorial.com (Editorial where are published the major parts of the books of Daniel Gabarró and many of them are in PDF and free)
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